Hi kids, it’s your Auntie Civ here. I want to say you all deserve a huge shout-out for your amazing efforts! It’s hard work, challenging the stifling conventions of this destructive society, not to mention preparing for the collapse of civilization (and even helping it along a bit!) I’m moved by the passion and resourcefulness and dedication of the happy bands of ruffians diving in dumpsters, hopping trains, and living in the woods. The sheer exuberance of these semi-feral young people puts a song in my cynical old heart.
Now, I can’t hop trains anymore because of the arthritis, but I can help in other ways. I’ve learned a few things over the decades and I’d like others to benefit from my experience. There’s a lot at stake, and I know the struggle can be overwhelming for even the bravest soul. Please, get it off your chest. Ask Auntie Civ anything — whether it’s free advice, anti-civilization insights, or funny stories from the bad old days, I’ll post the best questions and answers here.
But first, a little note about common sense: don’t send Auntie Civ any details about actions you may be thinking of doing, or details about actions you already did, or theories about who might be doing what. (Here’s a nice little essay about security culture – very educational!) Also, my opinions are my own (unless I’m quoting an expert) and I expect those who disagree to follow the time-honored tradition of flaming my fat ass. So bring it on, you young whippersnappers!
Love,
Auntie Civ
XOXOXO
Are you seriously buying into this “End Civilization” bit?
Sorry man, but you’re way, way off point on this one.
If what you want is for civilization to end and mankind to return to pre-technological tribal living, then why bother being informed and socially active at all? You should be cheering on the Cheneys and Pinochets of the world. After all, they’re your best bet for realizing your goal within your own life time.
The whole idea is nonsense. We as a species can’t go back the way we came. The way forward is forward.
Fatalism and despair is the coward’s way out. You’re not a coward, are you stim?
While I’m at it, let me tell you, in as few words as I can, exactly where Derrick Jensen gets it wrong. He imagines the earth as some kind of harmonic system, where nature is in balance and everything has a place. That’s ignorance. The oil we’re pulling out of the ground got there because at some point in the history of earth 99% of all living creatures died, essentially overnight. We have every reason to suspect that this kind of thing–the near total obliteration of all life–has happened many times. And this was long before mankind ever came along. There is no equilibrium to fall back on. The idea of a harmonic “nature” waiting for us to go away and leave it alone is an ignorant fantasy. We–the creatures that are alive on this planet now–are all there is. The nematodes are not going to be the ones who turn away the next live-extinguishing asteroid, or avert the next supervolcano eruption. That’s up to us. Our species, with our civilization, are a part of nature, every bit as much as Derrick Jensen’ beloved salmon. And unlike the salmon, we have an important role that WE ALONE can fulfill. Because unlike salmon, we have a thing called technology.
That’s way too many words. This is all really too obvious to point out, so I won’t say more.
How on earth do you think we’re going to avert the next asteroid? Your problem is that you seem to see human beings as the centre of the universe. Is our technology and our desire to control the universe a good enough reason to obliterate the life of all other species on this planet?
*life-extinguishing
Our task is to improve civilization, to stabilize it and rid it of its destructive quality. This means eliminating the systemic injustice and, yes, replacing the present “resource consumption” model with something that will not lead us to eating ourselves alive.
Blowing up dams, bridges and cellphone towers–the unabomber approach, in other words–is not only insane, it helps no one. Leave aside the fact that any such efforts to create the kind of “Mad Max meets Jungle Book” world that Jensen envisions will not only fail utterly and result in a more oppressive police state possessing the full support of a terrified populace. Suppose the attempts to destroy modern human life would succeed, and you managed to shut down all the factories and the power plants all over the world. In doing this you will have accounted for the deaths of billions of human beings. You will have eliminated the possibility of a nuclear holocaust, perhaps, but only by causing the starvation and expulsion of the vast majority of the world’s population.
I don’t understand why any thinking person would decide this is a good idea.
Explain it to me, please.
I really have no idea how to quote here, so I`ll just have to say that this is the respons to humanerror`s reply.
You see, I thin you have got it in a wrog way. Please don`t look at it as a return to sticks and stones. Stim`s talking about end oft the civ as we know it. Collapse of the pyramid scam of the economy that we have, collapse of the world`s political end financial powers, collapse of the greedy and repressive global society. When the times get as shitty as this peaople revolt, but when it get`s as shitty as this (i.e. when a man gets arrested for stealing food from hypermarket and gets accused of high tobbery) it`s time for revolution. We need a new society founded on sustained development, and that doesn`t mean that we have to get rid of all the technology we have, we just need a new system of values and lot of guns
This is published by Zoe Blunt, and not by the stimulator himself. I don’t even know if stimulator even agrees with all of what she says, but I can certainly say that I don’t. I’m rather disappointed with this to be honest, since it clearly takes subMedia in a direction that a lot of people don’t want to go.
@infil00p: It’s true that I don’t know for certain if stim agrees with this stuff, but after his hiatus to do the Derrick Jensen movie and now this, it is beginning to seem that way.
@YuRebel: I don’t know man, that’s not what Derrick Jensen says. And I don’t see why we need to characterize it as a “collapse” anyway. Was it a collapse when slaves became serfs, or a collapse when serfs became wave earners? Why should it be a collapse when wage earners finally become free human beings? It is true that when we take the wealth away from the top 1% of the top 1% and put it back in the hands those who produce it for a change, then the current masters of mankind will have to be brought down from their thrones. But these voluptuaries only make up a tiny, tiny percentage of our human population. I don’t see any reason to characterize this transition as a collapse.
*wage earners.
You see how useless I am without an “edit this post” option.
As I read it (and I’ve been reading Jensen, Diamond, Jeff Vail, and many others for a good while now) civ will end itself. It will be a whole lot less suffering if it happens quickly. We are not talking about going back to caves but if it happens peacefully due to resource scarcity and people wising-up its more likely to be something like what David Holmgren calls a horticultural ‘civilisation’. It will be decentralised, human-scale, and will leave a lot of the planet to go back to wild. If we have any sense. However, if we don’t have any sense (this is the most likely scenario) then its going to be a war of haves against have nots, taking the same old hierarchical form since most people are too damaged, too enthralled to the authoritarian spell, too selfish, too stupid, to demand anything different. So it woul dbe better if it happens quickly. But my guess is its going to look a lot like 1984, a Long Emergency ending in dystopia with the decentralised ferals pitted against the hierarchicals – err, I think I’ve just described asymetric warfare, AKA terrorism. It will look a lot like it does now only far far worse. Wiz (United States of Consciousness) usofc.wordpress.com
Hey Y’all,
Thanks for all your comments. Please know that I don’t always have time to reply to everything, but I try my motherfuckin best to get back to everyone.
So to address a few concerns:
1. Zoe the author of Aunti Civ is not Stim, but a rad activist with an amazing track record as a defender of nature and an accomplished writer. I have asked her and Nom de Guerre to write in my blog because I love what they write about.
2. Jensen’s ideas are too complex to be summed up in a few comments, hence I am making a feature length film to steer people to his books and from there they can make their own conclusions. It’s unfair to sum up Derrick’s ideas as “blowing up dams and cell phone towers” I find that most of the people who use that line have just heard his talks and not read his books. I am not suggesting humanerror has not read his books, (have you?) but if we’re going to have a conversation, let’s keep it clean, intelligent and when it merits it, prove your words by citing the source. Seems the concerns have a lot less to do with Aunti Civ, who does not mention Jensen in her initial post, and more on my film that will include Jensen’s ideas, among other things. So, again, don’t jump the gun and wait until the fuckin film is done.
3. Ask Auntie a damn question. I can’t guarantee that she’ll answer but for fuck sake, some of y’all are all over her without giving her a chance to gangsta that shit.
Again, thanks for taking the time to post.
good night slaves
stim
@stim: Fair enough. (And you’re right, I’ve only heard his talks. The parts that he read from his book, e.g., “imagine you’re a river” turned me off from actually reading them myself.)
My question for Auntie Civ is maybe too broad for a blog comment, but here it is: Why is working toward ending civilization preferable to working toward reforming/improving it?
By the way, I didn’t think the “blowing up dams and cell phone towers” thing needed to be cited. Jensen says when he wakes up each day he asks himself whether he should write, or blow up a dam. And so far he’s decided the best course of action is to write. The implied emphasis, at least as I understood it, was on “so far”. And the cell phone tower thing he also discusses, with an example to the effect that taking down a cell phone tower (which harms bees and so forth) could possibly result in a stranded motorist being negatively affected, but leaving the cell phone tower alone could just as easily cause someone distress.
But yeah, that’s off topic.
dear auntie civ, how do you propose to bring down ‘civilization as we know it’?
hey HumanError …
The flaw in your logic is that your STRANDED motorist has any right to even BE one. Let ALONE deserve our sympathies.
ONE BILLION PEOPLE ARE STARVING – a new world record.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/year-of-the-hungry-1000000000-afflicted-1213843.html
Perhaps it would be better to live until 30 with a full belly and bad eyesight than to starve at age 3.
EndCiv is about the stark reality that we are WAY beyond “carrying capacity”. You may be too affluent to get past your own paradigm. Our so called “civilzed” solutions GOT us here.
That IS the topic.
/1MF
Your meds.
Take them.
Your Affluenza.
Get OVER it.
“…taking down a cell phone tower (which harms bees and so forth) could possibly result in a stranded motorist being negatively affected, but leaving the cell phone tower alone could just as easily cause someone distress.”
That’s Jensen’s reasoning, not mine.
And these are YOURS:
“This is all really too obvious to point out, so I won’t say more.” (2nd of 4 consecutive freakin posts) I’m not going to give you the fight you came here for. Your disorder is glaringly self-evident. I’m done with you.
My comment to remarcus is: One Brick At A Time.
Seek opportunities to turn the tools of civilization BACK on themselves (submedia style) by jamming culture, resisting conformity, and building networks. BUT FOR NOW – Stim is tryin to make a movie, so spread the word and pass the hat. No contribution turned away.
also consider becoming a video ninja!!
Get yer ass to Victoria and learn more:
Saturday Feb 14 – Communities in Action
Linden Street House, 2 – 4 pm. Media activism workshop
http://submedia.tv/stimulator/2009/01/28/submedia-takes-over-victoria/
I’m on your side, friend. Your anger is wasted on me.
Offtopic again, but hey stim would you consider putting up a forum on here? I know it would probably degenerate immediately into a madhouse, but some useful connections and interesting communications might be produced in the process.
Edit: wow I’m an idiot. Disregard that last.